Study Nedarim folio 63A with parallel Hebrew-English text, traditional commentary, and modern study tools. Free access to Babylonian Talmud online.
Text Excerpt
מיתיבי: איזוהי זמנה של רביעה? הבכירה — בשלשה, בינונית — בשבעה, אפילה — בעשרים ושלשה, דברי רבי מאיר. רבי יהודה אומר: בשבעה, ובשבעה עשר, ובעשרים ושלשה.
The Talmud raises an objection against the statement by R' Zeira from the following baraita: When is the time of the rainfall? The early rainfall occurs on the 3rd of the month of Marḥeshvan; the intermediate rainfall is on the 7th of the month, while the late rainfall is on the 23rd of the month. This is the statement of R' Meir. R' Yehuda says: The respective dates are on the 7th, on the 17th, and on the 23rd of Marḥeshvan.
רבי יוסי אומר: בשבעה עשר, ובעשרים ושלשה, ובחודש כסליו. וכן היה רבי יוסי אומר: אין היחידים מתענין עד שיגיע ראש חדש כסליו.
R' Yosei says: The first two time periods are on the 17th and on the 23rd of Marḥeshvan, and the last period is at the beginning of the month of Kislev. And so too, R' Yosei would say: The learned individuals, who would start to fast due to a drought at an earlier time than the rest of the community, do not start to fast until Rosh Chodesh of Kislev arrives and no rain has fallen.
ואמרינן עלה: בשלמא רביעה ראשונה — לישאל. שלישית — להתענות. אלא שניה למאי? ואמר רבי זירא: לנודר.
And we say about this: Granted, they disagreed over the time of the first rainfall, as this time is relevant with regard to asking for rain through prayer. The time when the third rainfall is expected is relevant with regard to fasting due to lack of rain. But as for the expected time for the second rainfall, for what purpose did they disagree about its date? And R' Zeira said: It is significant for one who vows until the rain.
ואמרינן עלה: כמאן אזלא הא דתניא, רבן שמעון בן גמליאל אומר: גשמים שירדו שבעה ימים זה אחר זה — אתה מונה בהן רביעה ראשונה ושניה. כמאן? כרבי יוסי!
And furthermore, we say about this: In accordance with whose opinion is that which is taught in the baraita: Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says: In the case of rains that fell for 7 days, one after another, you count them as the first rainfall and the second. In accordance with whose opinion is this statement? In accordance with the opinion of R' Yosei, who is the only tanna who holds that the first and second periods of rainfall span 7 days. It is evident from this discussion that Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel argues that one who vows until the rain must wait until after the second actual rainfall. This contradicts the statement of R' Zeira that until the rain is referring to the date when rain is supposed to fall.