Study Nedarim folio 20B with parallel Hebrew-English text, traditional commentary, and modern study tools. Free access to Babylonian Talmud online.
Text Excerpt
בניך יפיפין ביותר? אמרה להן: אינו מספר עמי לא בתחלת הלילה, ולא בסוף הלילה, אלא בחצות הלילה. וכשהוא מספר, מגלה טפח ומכסה טפח, ודומה עליו כמי שכפאו שד.
are your children so beautiful? She said to them: My husband does not converse with me while having sex, neither at the beginning of the night nor at the end of the night, but rather at midnight. And when he converses with me while having sex, he reveals a handbreadth of my body and covers a handbreadth, and he covers himself up as though he were being coerced by a demon and is covering himself out of fear.
ואמרתי לו: מה טעם? ואמר לי: כדי שלא אתן את עיני באשה אחרת, ונמצאו בניו באין לידי ממזרות.
And I said to my husband: What is the reason for this behavior? And he said to me: It is so that I will not set my eyes on another woman, i.e., think about another woman; if a man thinks about another woman during sex with his wife, his children consequently come close to receiving a mamzer status, i.e., the nature of their souls is tantamount to that of a mamzer. Therefore I have sex with you at an hour when there are no people in the street, and in this manner. In any event, it can be seen from her words that a Sage conversed with his wife while having sex with her.
לא קשיא: הא — במילי דתשמיש, הא — במילי אחרנייתא.
The Talmud answers: This is not difficult. This permission to converse with her is with regard to matters of sex, whereas that restriction of conversation is with regard to other matters that are not related to sex.
אמר רבי יוחנן: זו דברי יוחנן בן דהבאי, אבל אמרו חכמים: אין הלכה כיוחנן בן דהבאי, אלא כל מה שאדם רוצה לעשות באשתו — עושה. משל לבשר הבא מבית הטבח, רצה לאכלו במלח — אוכלו. צלי — אוכלו. מבושל — אוכלו. שלוק — אוכלו. וכן דג הבא מבית הצייד.
R' Yoḥanan said: That is the statement of Yoḥanan ben Dehavai. However, the Rabbis said: The halakha is not in accordance with the opinion of Yoḥanan ben Dehavai. Rather, whatever a man wishes to do with his wife he may do. He may have sex with her in any manner that he wishes, and need not concern himself with these restrictions. As an allegory, it is like meat that comes from the butcher. If he wants to eat it with salt, he may eat it that way. If he wants to eat it roasted, he may eat it roasted. If he wants to eat it cooked, he may eat it cooked. If he wants to eat it boiled, he may eat it boiled. And likewise with regard to fish that come from the fisherman.