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Text Excerpt
איבעיא להו: אי עלו, מהו שירדו? רבה אמר: אם עלו – ירדו, רב יוסף אמר: אם עלו – לא ירדו.
§ A dilemma was raised before the rabbis: In a case where a rite was performed in the wrong location, e.g., offerings of the most sacred order were slaughtered in the south rather than the north, if the offerings had already ascended the altar, what is the halakha as to whether they descend, i.e., are they removed from the altar or are they sacrificed? Rabba says: If they ascended the altar, they should descend. Rav Yosef says: If they ascended the altar, they should not descend.
אליבא דרבי יהודה לא תיבעי לך, דכולי עלמא לא פליגי דאם עלו – ירדו. כי פליגי אליבא דרבי שמעון.
With regard to this dilemma, the Talmud cites a relevant dispute between R' Yehuda and R' Shimon in a Mishnah (Zevaḥim 84a). R' Yehuda maintains that in certain cases when an offering became disqualified in the sacred area, i.e., the Temple courtyard, it was removed from the altar. By contrast, R' Shimon rules that any offering that became disqualified once it was already inside the Temple courtyard was not removed from the altar if it ascended there. The Talmud states: In accordance with the opinion of R' Yehuda, you should not raise this dilemma, as everyone, i.e., both Rabba and Rav Yosef, agrees that in the cases of the Mishnah R' Yehuda would rule that even if the disqualified offerings have ascended the altar, they must descend. They disagree when the dilemma is raised according to the opinion of R' Shimon.
רב יוסף כרבי שמעון. רבה אמר לך: עד כאן לא קאמר רבי שמעון אלא בניתנין למטה שנתנן למעלה או בניתנין למעלה שנתנן למטה,
Rav Yosef holds in accordance with a straightforward interpretation of the opinion of R' Shimon, that the offerings listed in the Mishnah do not descend from the altar, as they became disqualified inside the Temple courtyard. By contrast, Rabba could have said to you: R' Shimon states that the offerings do not descend only with regard to cases such as the bird sin offering, whose blood should be placed below the red line on the altar, which one placed above the red line; or with regard to offerings such as the bird burnt offering, whose blood should be placed above the red line, which one placed below that line.