Study Kiddushin folio 45B with parallel Hebrew-English text, traditional commentary, and modern study tools. Free access to Babylonian Talmud online.
Text Excerpt
שמא נתרצה הבן לא אמרינן. אמרי ליה רבנן לרבינא: ודילמא שליח שויה? לא חציף איניש לשוויי לאבוה שליח. ודילמא ארצויי ארצייה קמיה? אמר ליה רבה בר שימי: בפירוש אמר מר דלא סבר להא דרב ושמואל.
and we do not say that perhaps the son desired the betrothal. The rabbis said to Ravina: But perhaps the son appointed his father as an agent to betroth her, and the betrothal should take effect. He replied: A person is not so brazen as to appoint his father as his agent and thereby treat him as an assistant of sorts. They further inquired: But perhaps the son made his desire known to his father by speaking of his desire to marry the woman, and the father acted of his own accord upon his son’s wishes and betrothed her to him. Rabba bar Shimi said to Ravina: This is not a concern, since the Master, i.e., Ravina, explicitly said that he does not agree with this opinion of Rav and Shmuel that when a minor girl accepts betrothal there is a concern that perhaps the father desired it. So too, there is no concern that a father can act for the son without his awareness.
ההוא גברא דקדיש בכישא דירקא בשוקא. אמר רבינא: אפילו למאן דאמר חוששין שמא נתרצה האב – הני מילי דרך כבוד, אבל דרך בזיון – לא.
The Talmud relates: There was a certain man who betrothed a minor girl without her father’s consent with a bundle of vegetables in the marketplace. Ravina says: Even according to the one who says that when a minor becomes betrothed without her father’s consent we are concerned that perhaps the father desired the betrothal, this matter applies only if the man betrothed her in a dignified manner. But as the betrothal in this case was done in a degrading manner, there is no concern.
אמר ליה רב אחא מדיפתי לרבינא: בזיון דמאי? אי בזיון דירקא, אי בזיון דשוקא? נפקא מינה דקדיש בכספא בשוקא, או בכישא דירקא בביתא, מאי? אמר ליה: אידי ואידי דרך בזיון הוא.
Rav Aḥa of Difti said to Ravina: What was the degradation in this manner of betrothal? Was the degradation from the fact that he used vegetables, or was the degradation due to the betrothal having been performed in the marketplace? The practical difference concerns cases where one betrothed a minor girl with money in the marketplace, or where one betrothed a minor girl with a bundle of vegetables in a house. What is the halakha? Ravina said to him: Both this and that, i.e., each of them is considered a degrading manner.