Study Ketubot folio 8B with parallel Hebrew-English text, traditional commentary, and modern study tools. Free access to Babylonian Talmud online.
Text Excerpt
כי תניא ההיא — בברכת המזון, כי קאמר רבי יוחנן — בשורה.
The Talmud answers: When that baraita is taught, it is with regard to combining with others to form a quorum of 3 to recite Grace after Meals, as a mourner is obligated to recite Grace after Meals. However, when R' Yoḥanan says that mourners are not included in the tally, it is with regard to the quorum of 10 men required to form a line to comfort the mourners following the burial.
ואלא הא דאמר רבי יצחק אמר רבי יוחנן: מברכים ברכת חתנים בעשרה, וחתנים מן המנין. וברכת אבלים בעשרה, ואין אבלים מן המנין. ברכה בשורה מי איכא? אלא כי קאמר רבי יוחנן ברחבה.
And the Talmud raises an objection: However, that which R' Yitzḥak said that R' Yoḥanan said: One recites the blessing of the grooms in a quorum of 10, and the grooms are included in the tally, and one recites the blessing of the mourners in a quorum of 10, and the mourners are not included in the tally. Is there a blessing recited in the line formed to comfort the mourners? Clearly, this statement of R' Yoḥanan cannot be explained as referring to the line. Rather, when R' Yoḥanan said that mourners are not included in the tally, it was with regard to the blessing recited in the square adjacent to the cemetery, where the meal of comfort takes place and various blessings are recited to comfort the mourners. Mourners are not included in the requisite quorum of 10.
ואלא הא דאמר רבי יצחק אמר רבי יוחנן: מברכין ברכת חתנים בעשרה כל שבעה, וחתנים מן המנין. וברכת אבלים בעשרה כל שבעה, ואין אבלים מן המנין. ברכת רחבה כל שבעה מי איכא? משכחת לה בפנים חדשות.
The Talmud asks: However, with regard to that which R' Yitzḥak said that R' Yoḥanan said: One recites the blessing of the grooms in a quorum of 10 all 7 days of celebration, and the grooms are included in the tally; and one recites the blessing of the mourners all 7 days of mourning in a quorum of 10, and the mourners are not included in the tally, is there a blessing recited in the square all 7 days? The meal of comfort and the associated blessings take place directly after the burial, not throughout the 7 days of mourning. The Talmud answers: You find blessings recited throughout the 7-day mourning period in a case where new faces who did not attend the burial are present. In that case, eulogies and words of comfort are repeated, and the blessing of the mourners is recited again.