Study Ketubot folio 45B with parallel Hebrew-English text, traditional commentary, and modern study tools. Free access to Babylonian Talmud online.
Text Excerpt
אימור דשמעינן ליה לרבי שמעון דאזיל אף בתר ידיעה, דאזיל בתר ידיעה ולא אזיל בתר חטאה מי שמעת ליה? אם כן — לייתי קרבן כי דהשתא: משוח פר, ונשיא שעיר!
The Talmud questions this comparison: Say that we heard that R' Shimon follows even the awareness, i.e., R' Shimon takes into consideration the time when the sin became known to the High Priest or king, and maintains that he cannot bring the offering of a commoner. However, did you hear him say that he follows the time of the awareness and does not follow the time of the sin? If so, let him bring the offering that befits his current status: One anointed to be the High Priest brings a bullock, and a prince, i.e., a king, offers a goat. Consequently, there is no proof that, according to R' Shimon, if the sin of a betrothed young woman became known after she reached majority, she is sentenced to strangulation like a grown woman.
האמר ליה רבי יוחנן לתנא: תני, תידון בסקילה. ואמאי? ״נערה המאורסה״ אמר רחמנא והא בוגרת היא! אמר רבי אילעא, אמר קרא: ״הנערה״ — הנערה שהיתה כבר.
The Talmud responds: Nevertheless, this issue is subject to a dispute. Didn’t R' Yoḥanan say to the tanna, i.e., the Sage who would recite statements of tanna’im before him and who recited Sheila’s ruling with regard to a betrothed young woman: Teach that she is sentenced to stoning rather than strangulation? The Talmud questions R' Yoḥanan’s statement: But why? God says: A betrothed young woman, but this one is a grown woman. R' Ile’a said: The verse states: The young woman, in reference to the young woman that she already was at the time of her sin, despite the fact that she now has a different status.
אמר ליה רבי חנניא לרבי אילעא: אי הכי מילקא נמי לילקי, ומאה סלע נמי לישלם! אמר ליה: רחמנא ניצלן מהאי דעתא: אדרבה, רחמנא ניצלן מדעתא דידך.
R' Ḥanina said to R' Ile’a: If so, if her status is determined according to the time of her transgression, let the husband who defames her also be flogged, and let him also pay the 100 sela if his claim turns out to have been unfounded. R' Ile’a said to him: May God save us from following this opinion, as your argument is illogical. R' Ḥanina replied: On the contrary, may God save us from your opinion, as yours is the baseless opinion.