Horayot 14A

לא היה קרב. אמר לו: מי הם הללו שמימיהם אנו שותים ושמותם אין אנו מזכירים? אמר ליה: בני אדם שבקשו לעקור כבודך וכבוד בית אביך.

it would not be sacrificed. R' Yehuda HaNasi’s son said to him: Who are these rabbis whose water we drink but whose names we do not mention? R' Yehuda HaNasi said to him: They are people who sought to abolish your honor and the honor of your father’s house.

אמר ליה: ״גם אהבתם גם שנאתם גם קנאתם כבר אבדה״! אמר ליה: ״האויב תמו חרבות לנצח״. אמר ליה: הני מלי היכא דאהנו מעשייהו, רבנן לא אהנו מעשייהו! הדר אתני ליה, אמרו משום רבי מאיר: אילו היה תמורה לא היה קרב. אמר רבא: אפילו רבי דענוותנא הוא (תנא), ״אמרו משום רבי מאיר״. ״אמר רבי מאיר״ לא אמר.

His son said to him, citing the verse: “Their love as well as their hatred and their envy is long ago perished” (Ecclesiastes 9:6): That was long ago and they have already died. Therefore, there is no harm in mentioning their names. R' Yehuda HaNasi said to him: But it is also stated: “The enemy are come to an end; the wasted places are forever” (Psalms 9:7). Although the enemies died, the desolation that they created remains. Therefore, although they are dead, their names should not be mentioned. Rabban Shimon said to his father: These matters apply in a case where their actions were effective. In the case of these rabbis, their actions were not effective. R' Yehuda HaNasi then taught him: The rabbis said in the name of R' Meir: If it was considered a substitute, it would not be sacrificed. Rava said: Even R' Yehuda HaNasi, who is humble, taught: The rabbis said in the name of R' Meir. But he did not say directly: R' Meir said.

אמר רבי יוחנן: פליגו בה רבן שמעון בן גמליאל ורבנן, חד אמר: סיני עדיף, וחד אמר: עוקר הרים עדיף.

§ R' Yoḥanan said: Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel and the Rabbis disagreed with regard to this matter. One said: Sinai, i.e., one who is extremely knowledgeable, is preferable; and one said: One who uproots mountains, i.e., one who is extremely incisive, is preferable.