Study Bekhorot folio 17A with parallel Hebrew-English text, traditional commentary, and modern study tools. Free access to Babylonian Talmud online.
Text Excerpt
היינו דאמר ליה רבן שמעון בן גמליאל: אפילו עד עשרה דורות פטורין. אלא לרב הונא דאמר: לא נחית תנא קמא לדרי, מאי ״אפילו עד עשרה דורות״? אמר לך רב הונא: רבן שמעון בן גמליאל א״העמיד״ קאי דנחית לדרי.
this is what Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel said to him: Even until 10 generations, the offspring are exempt. But according to Rav Huna, who says that the first tanna did not descend to any generational levels, what is the meaning of the phrase: Even until 10 generations? The Talmud responds: Rav Huna could have said to you that the statement of Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel is referring to the second case of the Mishnah, where the Jew established the offspring in place of the mothers, as in that case the first tanna also descends to generational levels.
תא שמע: המקבל צאן ברזל מן הגוי — ולדות פטורין, וולדי ולדות לא. תיובתא דרב יהודה! אמר לך רב יהודה, אימא: הן וולדותיהן.
The Talmud comments: Come and hear an objection to the opinion of Rav Yehuda from the Mishnah: With regard to one who accepts animals as part of a guaranteed investment from a non-Jew, the direct offspring are exempt, and the offspring of the direct offspring are not exempt. This is apparently a conclusive refutation of the opinion of Rav Yehuda, who said that the offspring of the direct offspring are also exempt. The Talmud explains that Rav Yehuda could have said to you: I will say that the Mishnah means that they, the direct offspring, and their offspring are exempt. When the Mishnah said: The offspring are exempt, it was referring not to the offspring of the original animals given to the Jew, but to the offspring of those offspring.
איכא דאמרי: הן וולדותיהן פטורין, תיובתא דרב הונא! אמר לך רב הונא: אימא הן וולדות — פטור, וולדי ולדות — חייב.
The Talmud notes that there are those who say that there is a different version of this exchange: The Mishnah is actually written as: They, the direct offspring, and their offspring are exempt, which is apparently a conclusive refutation of the opinion of Rav Huna. The Talmud explains that Rav Huna could have said to you: One can say that the Mishnah means that they, i.e., the original animals given to the Jew, and their offspring are exempt. But the offspring of their direct offspring are obligated.